Tower Crane Operator & Founder of Construction Cogs
Interviewed by Lisa Webb
These interviews are designed for the people about the people. The aim is to give insight to anyone who either wants to get into the construction industry, or is curious about the roles.
Each person is a cog in the construction machine. We give an insight as to how each person got into their roles and what their roles entail.
I thought it would be fitting to start the first interview with myself. And why not have the person who knows me best to interview me? My wonderful wife, Lisa.
Before we start, here’s a little about me.
Jimmy Webb is a 43-year-old married crane driver with 2 children and a fur ball. He’s driven machinery nearly all his working life. From warehouse forklifts in his late teens, to various forms of plant as a groundworker for fifteen years.
In 1998, he completed a BTEC National Diploma in Graphic Design, but realised he didn’t enjoy office environments. Which was why he more recently opted for the isolation of a crane cab. He’s been doing this role since 2015, when he snapped up the opportunity to apply for a Lifting Technician apprenticeship, provided by Select Cranes.
After eight years in the role, he founded Construction Cogs.
LW – Okay, so this is a bit weird, asking you questions I already know the answers to. But for the benefit of the members, here goes.
Firstly, welcome, Jimmy. When we met some 20-plus years ago, you were a forklift driver and soon after became a groundworker, which you did for many years.
Now, I know the cons to working in the construction industry, because many of them impacted me. Unpredictable finish hours, last-minute changes due to suppliers and other trades changing plans, weather, pressurised and sometimes fiery working environments, lots of dirty washing, constant boot replacement expense. But what do you consider the pros of working in this industry?
JW – Well, I’m out of the mud and concrete now, so I don’t get dirty clothes anymore. The boots are paid for, and they usually last me a couple of years. But in terms of the construction industry as a whole, the pay can be good.
A lot of people go to uni these days and can come out to earn less money than what you can earn as a tradesperson.
Management level can have its benefits as well. Again, the money can be good, but it gives a lot of opportunities to progress to higher levels within companies, as well as the knowledge to one day start your own construction firm.
The fresh air and exercise are hugely beneficial. Personally, the work I do has much less toll on the body than before, except that sitting for long hours has downfalls. And on a personal note, I get to play with great toys.
Also, in construction, we contribute to society. Housing people and helping to grow the economy.
LW – So, going back to when you were a groundworker, what stopped you from breaking away from working for the company you worked for and starting your own business?
JW – I did think about it. It was a big risk. Money was very tight at the time. We had a young family, so I thought, you know, is it worth that risk? I wanted the security
But also, my body was telling me that it had enough. My back was needing regular treatment, my knees were not good. The body’s still paying for it now, to be honest, so I think I got out just at the right time.
LW – So how and when did you hear about the crane operator apprenticeship opportunity and why did it interest you?
JW – I used to drive past cranes in London and look up at them in awe. As a machine driver, it was something I really fancied doing. There’s something about cranes that fascinates people. Even now, I get people pointing up or taking pictures.
When I spoke to a friend one day, he said he was going for an apprenticeship. He was to be part of the first cohort of lifting apprentices taken on by Select. It sounded interesting and an amazing opportunity. Apprenticeships had almost disappeared at the time. They’ve started to come back now. To try to progress in careers, everything costed a lot of money, which I didn’t have.
I told him to let me know how he got on with it. I said that if he found it worth doing, I’d give it a crack. He enjoyed it, so I applied.
LW – The selection process was lengthy and competitive. Describe some stages of the process.
JW – So, the company’s apprenticeship scheme took on 8 people per cohort. I think they did 3 to 4 a year. They probably had 100 to 200 people apply by sending CVs in. That was the initial phase.
People who got through the CV stage would get a telephone interview. After passing the telephone interview stage, I went to a what was called an interview day? They ran over two days where 8 people per day would attend. The numbers could be slightly inaccurate there. It was a long time ago. I struggle to remember.
We’d have dexterity tests and team activities to see how we performed in a team. They assessed the whole time, walking around taking notes. We also did a mechanical test, where we had to build a structure under assessment.
There was also a Maths and English test to judge the level we were at academically. Then, at the end, there was a formal interview. After that was a waiting game.
I remember getting the phonecall to say I’d been accepted. It was from Simon Rawstron, the man who was in charge of the process. I was having a shit day at work, wading around in mud and crap. It was freezing. My back was killing me because we’d laid hundreds of metres of council slabs around a school in Corringham.
I got the call as I was cutting a slab with a petrol cutter. After the call, I went back to the slab, started the cutter up and screamed at the top of my voice as I was cutting. I could see light at the end of a dark tunnel.
LW – We had a young family and a house when this career change took place, so we made the decision to make short-term financial sacrifices. Our family life was tipped on its head because you were training away from home all week for those 12 weeks. How did you cope, and did you have any doubts about taking this opportunity on?
JW – I had no doubts whatsoever. I knew it was the right thing do. As you know, I’d tried to get out of groundworks a year or so prior, to do kitchen design and sales. Although I did well in that role, I knew it wasn’t for me. When this opportunity came up, I knew the job and I were suited for each other.
The money as an apprentice wasn’t too different to what I was earning anyway on a flat week, so we didn’t have to sacrifice that much in that respect. Obviously, it was tough being away from home for that amount of time for three months. I went home on weekends. I was aware that it might be a struggle for us and the kids, but I just knew it was my calling. It was the right thing to do. And deep down, I knew I’d get the job.
LW – You were lucky that you didn’t have to pay the training because it was all covered under the apprenticeship. How much do the cards cost an individual if someone wants to do it off their own back?
JW – It varies from training provider to training provider. We had to train in about 8 categories for Select to get funding for the training. To give a couple of examples, slinger/signalling and traffic marshalling. I think they’ve narrowed it down to just lifting categories now. But, in relation to the question, as our paths were for crane driving, I’ll give the price range for that.
A course can take five to nine days. Edging more towards the five days. It can cost anywhere between £1300 to £3000.
LW – During the application process and on the actual course, were all the applicants, successful or not, from a similar working background to yourself and similar age?
JW – I didn’t speak in great depth to all the people who were on the interview day with me. But a couple of them were of similar backgrounds. One was a groundworker like I was, and one worked as a slinger/signaller within Select. Only the groundworker, along with a man who was in the army, got accepted with me.
They were in my cohort, along with a roofer, a traffic management operative, a personal trainer, someone who worked in a Select office renting out MEWPS, and I can’t remember what job the last person did.
So there was a broad spectrum there.
LW – And what about ages?
JW – Oh yes. I was the oldest.
LW – How did you feel about that? Because some people planning on going through these processes will be older. That might put them off going up against young people.
JW – It didn’t bother me at all. I knew that Select wanted people who were of a certain stage in their lives. Not so much a certain age, but I knew they wanted people who were dedicated and had responsibility. So, families, wives maybe, houses. Or the plan to have those things.
For some reason, I was kind of assumed as the leader of the group. I didn’t order people around or anything like that, but I helped people as much as I could. I had to organise transport for a couple of events. I helped a couple of people who had personal problems, and notified our mentor, John Young, if someone was emotionally struggling with something. I tried to help if people had any niggles with each other.
There was also a situation I helped with, where someone from the next cohort that overlapped us was getting a hard time from someone from an excavator course that shared classes with his group.
No, the age didn’t bother me, I just knew it was the right thing do. I think the youngest was probably 22, something like that, and I was the oldest at 35, which isn’t old by any stretch.
But the point is, it’s never too late for anyone. If you have the right mindset and attitude, that’s all that matters.
LW – During the 12-week apprenticeship training, what challenges did you face?
JW – To be honest, I had it very easy.The only challenge was being away from home for that long period. Other than that, I was with a good bunch of people. We had a laugh. We were provided three full meals a day, at no cost, which was nice. We got to drive cranes, which is great. We got to learn new things. I revised well, so didn’t find the theory tests difficult.
There was a little pool club there, which we went to regularly. I swam regularly.
So yeah, as I say, the only real challenge was being away from the family.
LW – How supported and prepared were you in the workplace when you left the training centre to be on site? And how many hours did you complete before being signed off?
So we weren’t just sent straight out on site. The company was good in that respect.
The main crane categories that concentrated on were crawler cranes and tower cranes. I spent two weeks in the yard at St Neots, which is one of the headquarters, because they’ve got cranes there doing all the deliveries and moving stuff around the yard.
They sent us there first for two weeks to get used to being on small cranes. But it was still quite busy in a controlled environment. Then we did two weeks at Bourne Airfield, working on the crawlers. That was really quiet. There wasn’t a great deal to do there, so that eased us into.
From there, we each chose which category we wanted to pursue. I chose towers.
After that, we shadowed on site for a week or two. I was on King’sCollege Hospital.
There were established drivers there, experienced drivers for me to learn from. I would sit behind them and watch how they drove, how they dealt with people. I absorbed the good points and their bad habits.
It took two years to get my NVQ. It actually took a bit longer because when I had my assessment, the bloke messed the paperwork up. So I didn’t actually get my Blue Card for another few months.
LW – Do you have to have regular refresher training?
JW – No, the cards expire every five years. When they do, we sit a touch screen test, which is two separate tests. It’s one related to the cranes and also the normal CSCS health and safety test.
LW – On any of the sites that you’ve been on, have you had any other opportunities by way of training or personal development in the role?
JW – Not within Select, but Lendlease has provided some training. I’ve done a lot of work on their sites. I did basic first aid training. There were no qualifications given for it, but it was just to give a bit of knowledge.
I’ve also done crane rescue training a few years ago. If crane drivers get in trouble, by falling ill or hurting themselves up the crane, they have to be rescued. Rescue plans are in place for that scenario, in which designated people get trained to carry out the rescues. So, I did that training and I got to abseil down the crane, which was fun. Unfortunately, that card has long expired.
LW – I understand that the role of crane operator can be quite lonely, stressful, fast-paced, pressurised, and a role that bears the burden of a lot of responsibilities. Many suffer with ill health. Whether that be physical or mental. How do you keep your mind and body in good health while up in cab?
JW – I don’t get lonely at all…
LW – You don’t, but other people might.
JW – No, well the question was about me, wasn’t it?
LW – Yeah, was about you, but what could other people do?
JW – OK, so exercise is good. You’re up there for long hours, you need to keep your body moving. I do stretches, squats, push ups, all sorts. People seeing me might think I’m a strange doing all that, but it keeps the blood pumping. It’s like when you’re in an office. Some offices now have stand up desks. I suggest standing up as much as you can, stretch your back out, stretch your legs out.
I also meditate during quiet periods. And I use the brakes on the ground to do my own stuff. My own passion. My writing, my blogging and stuff like that. These things are escapism for me.
I’d also recommend getting off site as much as possible, walking around or doing whatever it is that you like doing for escapism. Some people read. Others watch films. One bloke I know does trading on his laptop. Another used to hire a push bike and ride around the canals. Some others go to the gym or swimming pool.
It’s important because the job can be all-consuming at times. Especially with long days on really, really busy jobs.
Try not to let the job get to you when you leave the gates. Don’t even think about the work if you can help it. Just switch off from work. And most of all, enjoy family life if possible.
LW – You mentioned you can do long hours. How do you ensure you have a healthy work-life balance?
JW – It’s not easy. Quite often when I leave work, people invite me to go to the pub or whatever. That’s not really my thing. I spend all day with people at work. I don’t want to spend my evenings with them as well. I want to go home to my family.
Like I said before, I make sure the work doesn’t occupy my mind. As soon as I leave the gate, it’s gone. Whereas, with the job I did before as a groundworks foreman, I’d wake up in the middle of the night thinking about work, thinking about what I had to do the next day, thinking about what I’d done during the day, wondering if I’d forgotten anything.
At the moment, we have a system where we have elongated brakes. We have a rota. There are three drivers to two cranes, and we set up the rotor so that one person a day can leave at one o’clock.
In the crane world, it’s called a ‘flyer’. It’s a system that has to be approved by site. It always has to be approved, otherwise it’s classed as falsifying the timesheets.
That helps with fatigue management. There are a lot of crane drivers that go through divorces because they work long hours, or away from home. It can really take its toll on a relationship. So I think things like that are important.
LW – Talking about breakdowns of relationships, it can also affect people’s ill health, mental or physical. Do you think that the construction industry offers enough support and understanding to those that suffer?
JW – It’s so much better now than it used to be. You know what it’s like. What men are like. They don’t talk about things, close themselves off. People used to tell you, you know, ‘Get on with it, pull yourself together,’ but it’s a really big thing now.
Most of the big companies have mental health trained people who provide counselling. They have posters over the walls on site. They advise you where to go if you do have problems. Yeah, it’s a really big thing now that’s been pushed.
There’s been a few crane drivers in our firm that have had problems and I know that our company has helped them a lot. They’ve steered them in the right direction through counselling or whatever avenue they needed.
LW – Just quickly, you just mentioned men. It’s a male-dominated environment, but there’s plenty of women that work within it, isn’t there?
Absolutely, yeah, there is, but the national suicide rate, particularly in construction, is considerably highest amongst men because we don’t talk about our problems as much women do.
That’s not to say women’s problems aren’t valid. For example, there’s a lot more exposure on menopause these days, quite rightly. And larger companies are allowing men much longer paternity leave now, even after miscarriage. This gives partners more time to support each other in both the joyous and difficult times.
LW – Absolutely. So, what would you say are the pros and cons of the life of a crane operator?
JW – Okay, pros first:
It’s an interesting job.
Like I said before, cranes are great toys to play with.
I see fantastic views.
It can be well paid.
There’s good camaraderie on the site.
I meet a lot of great people. A lot of nationalities.
I learn some of their languages. Probably teaching me the wrong things to be honest, but I do tend to converse in Romanian a lot or Lithuanian, Russian, Portuguese, Polish.Cons:
Very long hours at times. You do have to work to earn your money.
We’re kind of obliged to do weekend work as well, which isn’t great.
There’s a lot of politics, unfortunately. That can be with fellow drivers. The more personalities there are on site, the more problems there can be. There can be egos that compete, people just out for themselves, or stitching people up.
And there can be problems with site management or site trades.
There can also be a lot of pressure well. Pressure to do things that you shouldn’t do. Pressure to work in the wind. Pressure to hit deadlines.
LW – So if someone was interested in becoming a crane operator but there wasn’t the apprenticeship available to them, what would you suggest they do to get their foot in the door?
JW – Unfortunately, it costs. You have to pay for the courses, but once you’ve done that, you’ll get your Red Card, which is a Trained Operator Card, and it can be difficult to get on site with the Red Card. A lot of companies won’t take Red Card drivers, but you can try agencies. Some agencies do.
You can also try being a slinger first to gain experience and see how cranes work and how crane drivers opearte. In fact, I believe that, in crane drivers’ training, they should do some training in slinger/signalling first, and vice versa.
LW – Why have you embarked on setting up Construction Cogs?
JW – Great question. Well, first and foremost, writing is my passion. I love it more than driving cranes. If I could do it full time, I would. I’ve had short stories and poetry published in a wide variety of literary journals, as well as being placed in competitions. I’m also in the middle of writing a novel. This is what I’ve done for years while on my breaks.
With the economy the way it is, wages are not going up, but everything else is, unfortunately. So, I put the creative writing to one side to do freelance writing to supplement my income.
I wrote a lot of content for one guy until he eventually stopped to focus on another business. I then sent out some cold emails to search for work. Most people ignored me. One company showed some interest. It felt very demoralising, particularly as I’d set up a website for the business.
One day, I was chatting with the guy I did the content for. He suggested that I write for myself about cranes. I’d thought about it before but didn’t know what I would write about, and imposter syndrome got the better of me. But the more I thought about it, the more sense it made.
I’d had enough of holding out for other people and hunting for an opportunity. I wanted to be the person that people contact for work.
It was a big decision, because I was at a pivotal point. I wanted to get out of driving cranes. Out of the industry altogether. I’ve been in construction nearly all my working life. Plus, sitting in that cab isn’t great for my back. I’d applied at a couple of train companies, done some assessments, and got invited to sit a further assessment.
After deep consideration at the fork in the road, I thought that I had to either leave to go into the unknown or stay and embrace the job, using my knowledge and experience to help others. I didn’t want to be stuck in between the two, just plodding along.
So I made my choice. But I want it to be for the people. I want it to be for people trying to get into the construction industry and don’t know where to look for guidance. Because, at the end of the day, being on site is a whole world different from the training centres.
LW How much support have you had in setting it up from other fellow construction folk?
JW – I’ve had a fair bit of support. It is difficult, because as of writing this interview, everything is not up and running yet, so people can’t see it to take it seriously. But the crane drivers at my site take pictures for my content. I’ve also had other drivers share photos and videos, as well as slingers, who also give me technical and factual information.
I get information from Lendlease management. And Wayne, our AP, gives me technical info and files to look at for research.
I’ve basically had to beg, borrow, and steal to get things up and running. Hopefully, more support will come when it actually goes live. Which, it will be by the time Joe public reads this. People will be able to see the credibility and see what it’s all about.
LW – Very good. Lastly, tell me something not many people know about you.
JW – Ooh. I used to play the piano. I’m good at drawing. I used to compete in karate at quite a high level. I was born in the Seychelles. And one morning, in her nightie, Helena Bonham Carter brought me a lovely coffee at her door, after I’d woke her and Tim up with my music while replacing the water main outside her house.